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Creationicity

January 12, 2009

The very first verse in the bible tells us that God created the heavens and the earth. This means that everything from the most distant galaxy down to the tiniest sub-atomic particle was created by God. The second verse tells us of a time when the earth was without form and void, which begs the question, “how did this come about?” There were waters because the spirit of God moved upon the face of them. In short, the sequence of creation is absolutely astonishing (plant life existing before the sun and moon were created; this won’t be found in the curriculuim of the average high school science department) There was a heaven and a formless earth that had water but no light. I bring this up because I read a post earlier tonight at “Ye Are Gods” which ponders the question “how much time lapses between verse one and verse two?”  Here’s a link to the post as I’m interested in the thoughts of others concerning this:

THE AGE OF DINOSAURS: WILDLY MISUNDERSTOOD

The first time that I heard this issue addressed as a christian, was at a church in San Diego, about seven months after being born of the Spirit. Questions about dinosaurs and the fossil record continued to intrigue me until one morning Pastor Fisher (Wow; I remember his name) made a passing reference to this. He likened the earth to a used car. When one purcheses a used vehicle, they may find, tucked into some of the crevices, candy wrappers, coins, and other reminders from an earlier time. This single analogy marked the first time that I had heard someone offer up a coherant explanation on this. Issues like this are interesting to think on, however, scripture remains our primary authority. Anything that runs contrary to scripture is error; regardless of how logical it may appear.

The account of creation is far more fascinating than most of us comprehend. So awesome is the Lord who inhabits eternity and has created all things that are. He fills the heavens, and yet has the hairs on our head numbered. I’m curious as to the thoughts of others concernng the above link. I wish to all, a blessed day in Jesus.

Hebrews 1:1-2 “God who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;”

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18 comments

  1. Hi Timbob,

    My sons and I are in an ongoing discussion about this very topic. Of course, they see a disconnect between what they are learning in their science class verses what they are taught in Sunday school. It is a difficult issue for sure.

    I remind them that God has all the facts and we do not. His Words do not conflict with any true facts about the universe. When all the facts are rightly understood there will be no conflict between observable science and God’s Word.

    There is a book called “No Final Conflict” by Francis Schaffer that offers some plausible explanations about the age of the earth. 1) God created a mature universe (it had the appearance of age from the first day), 2) There is a gap in time between Gen 1:1 and 1:2, 3) A very long day in Gen 1, or 4) The possibility that the flood affected the geological data (as far as the appearance of the age of fossils, etc). The book points out that we do not have a perfect understanding of the natural world and the same is true regarding our understanding of scripture.

    I have read that the terms ‘behemoth’ (Job) and “leviathan” in the bible could be referring to dinosaurs.

    There is another idea moving around liberal Christian circles that there are two creation stories (Gen 1 and Gen 2 being two separate stories). Have you heard of this? In my mind, this idea is debunked by the fact that Jesus quotes from both chapters in Matthew 19:4-5. In my view, Gen 2 is expounding in more detail what is mentioned in Gen 1.

    One of my favorite reference sources is called “Bible Doctrine” by Wayne Grudem. He has a chapter on creation that discusses evolution and the age of the earth. It’s a wonderful resource. I like what he says at the end of the chapter: “The possibility must be left open that God has chosen not to give us enough information to come to a clear decision on this question, and the real test of faithfulness to him may be the degree to which we can act charitably toward those who in good conscience and full believe in God’s Word hold to a different position on this matter.”

    Interesting discussion!

    May the Lord continually bless you.

    Scotti


  2. I really love this stuff. Personally, I am a Creationist. I enjoy the presupposition that the earth and universe are 6000+ years old, and reading about research being done that does fit into this model.
    There was a statement in the link you provide that I felt missed a clear Biblical refutation. In that link it states, “There is also no indication as to how much time passed between the creation of Genesis 1:1 and the ensuing destruction of the Earth’s ecosystem as noted in verse 2”. I would contend that Exodus 20:8-11

    “Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your animals, nor the alien within your gates. For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.
    I feel these verses clearly state (and reiterates) that all of creation was completed in 6 days.

    I would also contend that during the creation of anything, the matter you start with (perhaps Playdough) first starts as simple matter, then you turn it into a blob or pieces (therefore it became somewhat formless), which all preceded the completed project (earth). I find this is a more reasonable interpretation of Genesis 1:2 than assuming earth was re-destroyed in order to try and fit in billions of years…More obviously, Genesis 1:1 is an opening statement in which Genesis 1:2 begins the explanation.

    Of course, there is a lot of debate surrounding this wonderful topic. I have found many intellectual answers at the Answers in Genesis website as well.

    Blessings!
    Jeff


  3. Whoops, sorry I messed up my block quote there and included some of my writing in it! So much for proof reading!


  4. I’m inclined to think that the Cambrian explosion was the result of the Great Flood rapidly burying all kinds of life forms. The Cambrian explosion suggests not only the rapid appearance of fully formed organisms from all phylum, but also the sudden colossal destruction of these organisms. If this is the case, then there was no great gap in time unaccounted for. Why should we expect dinosaurs to thrive after the flood? The ecosystem was virtually wiped-out, and dinosaurs, being as big as they are, would have had an enormous demand for food.

    I’ve heard this view, also called Satan’s Flood, and for a time I strongly considered it. After several years, I eventually abandoned the idea, because there was no substantial reason to believe it was true, and no need to believe it even if it were true.


  5. Timbob, I love this subject! Creation is so vitally bound up in the truth of who God is. One of my favourite books of the bible is Job. (Job was so faithful.) What truly fascinates me about this account of his life is that after all is said and done, everyone has had his day at speculating why this fate has befallen Job, God shows up.

    Does God tell Job why? Does He then answer the burning question of why bad things happen to good people like Job? No! He talks about His creation of the world! He reveals to Job Who He is, and He chose to reveal Himself as Creator. Isn’t that amazing?

    I agree with Jeff, that there are some great resources on the Answers in Genesis site, and some great books to purchase that show just what a precious place Creationism has in our faith.

    As to the dinosaur question – I have no trouble believing that dinosaurs co-existed with men. Every culture has stories/myths/legends of terrorizing beasts. The Bible speaks of, as mentioned above, Leviathon and Behemoth. One is described as having a tail like a cedar (a tail like a big tree? that is not a hippo, as some bibles translate!) and scales that are impenetrable. Books I have read on OOPARTS also describe finds of rock paintings depicting men fighting dinosaurs.

    Interesting subject!


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  8. Hi Scotti. It’s always great to hear from you. This topic is one that is fascinating to be sure, and yet when we know that the bible is Gods word, any oppositions offerd by the world are erroneous; despite the appearance of evidence. I know that the creation is inexplainably fascinating which is why the post at “Ye Are Gods” caught my attention.

    Overall, however, the statement from Wayne Grudem that you mention is a perfect summary. While scripture proclaims the attrributes of God, the whole of them are past finding out. I imagine this pertains to creation as well. If we had a exhaustive textbook on all of the intricacies, the element of faith would not be a requirement.

    Thanks so much for stopping by. Have a blessed day in Jesus.


  9. timbob,
    Great thoughts! I love a thinker. Only to add confusion to the time line. I majored in Physics as a kid. A PHD professor demonstrated Carbon 14 dating didn’t work, but it is convenient to assume it does because there is nothing else.

    So, there is always caution when people use Carbon 14 dating as fact to justify their conclusions.
    archie


  10. Hi Tree63 fan. There is, without a doubt a lot of debate on this and while we maintain the integrity of Gods word, these ponderings are fascinating. For me they don’t bring into question whether or not Gods word is true, they reveal just how awesome God is. Your analogy of play dough is a good one and adds insite to this debate.

    This topic is one that, when the time arrives that we are granted a clear picture, will be more incredible than our wildest imaginations. Still it’s fun to ponder; even through a glass darkly.

    Thanks for taking time to comment. This is one of the the liveliest discussions that this little blog has ever seen. Have a blessed day in Jesus.


  11. Hi Beyondbluestockings. Without a doubt the very creation declares that God is; even the elements that are used by the nay sayers to argue against the existance of God. (I Timothy 6:20) Despite the incredible scope of this topic, Hebrews 11:3 is true and reveals to all that we cannot figure it out by observing what is present in the physical.(I’ll have to check out the answers to Genesis site and perhaps link to it.)

    This is a toppic that I’m wanting to devote more time to, if possible. It seems as of late that when I run through recent postings under faith that a lot of athiest blogs have been appearing with their complex array of excuses and I’m compelled to answer this challenge.

    Thanks for taking time to comment. Have a blessed day in Jesus.


  12. Hi Lesley. I had never heard of Alphainventions until after the last post when the hit counter took off like a rocket. I’ve linked to it and plan to make it known as much as possible. This is an incredible resource and I’ll think on possible suggestions concerning the link provided. (Although I’m not a cyber-whiz by any stretch of the imagination) Thanks for the input.

    have a blessed day in Jesus.


  13. H M Patterson. (Sorry; I accidentally skipped past your comment and now it’s out of sequence.) You touch on a very important aspect concerning the flood. Scripture reveals that the world prior to the flood was a very different place. People lived a lot longer, the ground was watered by a mist that came up and even the geography must have been different. (The way the rivers ran prior to the flood is different than what we see now.)

    The flood, in essence destroyed the old world that was and, the only written account concerning this previous age is scripture. I remember once listening to a scientist proclaim his thoughts on the fossil record when he stated “There seems to have been a mass extinction in the past.” My thought concerning this was “Oh…You think?”

    These ponderings don’t bring us to question our faith in Jesus; on the contrary, they reveal all the more, how incredible God is and that he is a most incredible Creator who inhabits eternity.

    Thanks for taking time to comment. Have a blessed day in Jesus.


  14. Hi Denny. I’ll stop by when I have time to read the post at hand. In fact I have a lot of catching up to do as this week is being taken up by an array of cub-scout activities. Thanks for taking time to comment.

    Have a blessed day in Jesus.


  15. Hi Archie. You must have commented while I was responding to the others. Thanks for stopping in. Carbon 14 dating fails on every level, and yet those in the skeptical community cling to it by faith. As you state, what else is there to go to.

    On the way back from Chicago, we were listening to a CD in which the speaker goes through the many holes in evolution such as trees sitting vertically while between layers of rock that are supposed to be millions of years apart. He discusses the various layers of sediment that are supposed to prove the age of the earth when he almost sarchastically askes “it this is the case, where did all of this dirt come from?”

    I remember as a youth, when one of our science teachers had us place a scoop of soil into a glass of water. The heavier elements sank more quickly than the lighter ones; thereby creating layers.

    There are so many aspects to this topic, however, we know that Gods word is the supreme authority in all things. One major problem that the skeptics have is that, if there is a spiritual realm, all of their theories become as nothing. There’s no formula in their arsenal to account for a spiritual realm which isn’t confined to the laws that govern the physical world. Therefore they will cling blindly to the big bang theory and what have you in an attempt to explain how the elements somehow create themselves and, after a few billion years, became aware of themselves. (That takes faith)

    Thanks so much for adding to the discussion. Have a blessed day in Jesus.


  16. Timbob,
    Thanks for the kind reply. I wrote a few posts a while back that covered this topic a bit, as well as some related side issues. I haven’t reread them, but from what is posted here, they may be of interest.
    What if…
    Creation and Time – Part 1
    Creation and Time – Part 2
    Creation and Time – Part 3


  17. It is amazing to think of what it was like in the first verses of Genesis, and really all of Genesis. I can’t wait to find out too about the dinosaurs and what the climate was like before Noah, all that stuff!

    Thanks for your comment! Bless you!


  18. Hi Gods girl. I think that we’ll be speechless when we see all of the intricacies of creation. It makes Revelation 4:11 all the more incredible. Thanks for taking time to comment.

    Have a blessed day in Jesus.



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